Recommended Storage Type, RAID vs No RAID, ZFS vs no ZFS (2024)

G

gorillaz

New Member
Sep 7, 2024
2
1
1
  • Saturday at 20:33
  • #1

Hello everyone,

I'm new to proxmox and am not sure about whether I should go with ZFS and/or RAID or without for my hardware.

My hardware:
Lenovo ThinkCentre with Intel i5-9400T 1.80 Ghz
32 GB Non-ECC RAM
1x 256 GB M2-SSD for Proxmox installation
4x 4TB HDD

What I already know is that ZFS has many advantages over the other options but I'm not sure if it is suitable for my hardware because of the resource overhead and Non-ECC memory (although data corruption because of that should be rather rare as far as i know).
Also I'm not sure what would happen if I use ZFS without RAID and one drive fails. Is the whole pool then non-recoverable or just the failed drive? Because if not, I'd rather go with no RAID (I've had trouble with RAID before, being stuck in a reconstruction loop and other things) and have an extra 4TB cause I would have backup if a failure happens.
And is it true that if the proxmox installation is broken or my machine stops working, I'm not able to access my data on another machine when using ZFS with or without RAID?

I'm really interested in your long-term experiences of those different options (ZFS, ZFS with RAID, no ZFS like lvm, ...) and recommendations for my specific hardware.

Thanks for your help

  • Sunday at 03:18
  • #2

Ideally you need to address redundancy from the other side, ie not: "I have this and" but "I want this". However you have some hardware and want to make the best of it.

You have a M2 and a bunch of spinning rust and you have decided to use the M2 for the OS and it looks like you want to use the spinning discs for data.

If you have a hardware RAID controller with battery backed cache then use that: Four HDDs as RAID 5 and slap an ext4 or xfs on it. If you do not have a hardware RAID controller then you should consider a software alternative. ZFS is indicated. Don't worry about ECC too much unless you are going to massively increase your budget.

In the end it really boils down to how important your data is to you and what your budget looks like. Don't mix funky filesystems like ZFS that can do their own RAID with hardware RAID - its a waste. ext4 or xfs on a RAID or ZFS, BTRFS, or BCacheFS on disparate discs.

Don't overthink it when starting out with this stuff. Make sure you have backups of important data and then experiment.

G

gorillaz

New Member
Sep 7, 2024
2
1
1
  • Sunday at 10:19
  • #3

Thanks for your response.
And yes I think you’re right, I am overthinking this actually.
And since I have backups of all my important data it shouldn’t be a problem to experiment.
So I’ll just go with ZFS, since I don’t have hardware RAID, and see how it goes.

  • Recommended Storage Type, RAID vs No RAID, ZFS vs no ZFS (1)

Reactions:

Blueloop

B

Blueloop

New Member
Jun 7, 2024
16
7
3
  • Monday at 01:16
  • #4

Do make sure that you can restore from your backups first before mucking about.

G

_gabriel

Renowned Member
Mar 30, 2021
1,356
274
93
39
  • Monday at 01:30
  • #5

Blueloop said:

Four HDDs as RAID 5

IOPS is slower than RAID10.
RAID10 is recommended for virtualization.
in ZFS it's called striped mirrored disks.
ZFS slowdown disks, if you host file sharing why not, but if you host many guests they will crawl down.

L

louie1961

Active Member
Jan 25, 2023
249
64
28
  • Monday at 01:51
  • #6

Personally I would go with a larger NVMe drive (1-2 TB) and put both Proxmox and your VMs on it. I wouldn't probably wouldn't use ZFS since its just one drive and you don't have much memory. I would dedicate one of those 4TB spinners to Proxmox as a data store for ISOs, CT templates, etc. The other three spinners I would pass through to something like OpenMediaVault to provide NFS shares to your VMs and docker. I say OMV instead of TrueNAS since OMV is a lot less resource intensive. Inside of OMV, you could create a software raid with those three disks using MDADM then format the file system with BTRFS. This way you get snapshots and data scrubs but without the problems that BTRFS sometimes has with creating raid arrays. I nhave done this and it works great. If you absolutely can not get a larger NVME, then I guess you will have to put your VMs on one of those 4TB spinners. But you will be much happier running your VMs from an NVME.

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Recommended Storage Type, RAID vs No RAID, ZFS vs no ZFS (2024)

FAQs

Should I use RAID or ZFS? ›

ZFS is known for its excellent data integrity, while Linux RAID offers a more cost-effective solution. XFS RAID is the most advanced solution, offering features such as dynamic striping and snapshot technology. Let's compare these three RAID solutions' features and benefits.

Is ZFS better than BTRFS? ›

Performance: ZFS RAID support and 128-bit scalability offer better performance compared to Btrfs. The LZ4 compression algorithm used in ZFS is faster than the zlib used in the Btrfs file system.

What is RAID ZFS? ›

And so you can think of ZFS as volume manager and a RAID array in one, which allows extra disks to be added to your ZFS volume which allows extra space to be added to your file system all at once. So ZFS includes all typical RAID levels that you normally will come to expect, they just go by different names.

What is RAID 0 vs 1 ZFS? ›

raid 1 is a mirrored setup, each nvme drive is a full copy of the other so if one fails, the system can continue to function. raid 0 is a striped setup, each nvme drive holds only half of the data so if one fails, the system will fail and all data is lost.

Is ZFS good for home use? ›

It's okay for most use case except slow first time open of applications. But for demanding games it usually has very bad performance. * ZFS also manage cache by itself so it needs some memory.

Which ZFS RAID is best for performance? ›

Raid Z1 is the best 4 drive raid for 1/3x write performance, 3x read performance, able to lose any 1 drive. 4. Raid Z2 is the best 4 drive raid for 1/4x write performance, 2x read performance, able to lose any 2 drives.

Should I choose LVM or ZFS? ›

As a result, ZFS is more suited for more advanced users like developers who constantly move data around different disks and servers. Regardless of your choice of volume manager, you can always use both LVM and ZFS to manage your data across disks and servers when you move onto a VPS platform as well.

Is ZFS on Linux good? ›

ZFS has proven to be highly reliable. Ext4 became a widely used file system because of its ability to manage large files and being a *reliable* file system. While it may not have all the advanced features of ZFS, it is generally faster and lighter, making it a good choice for many common workloads.

Does ZFS use a lot of RAM? ›

ZFS depends heavily on memory, so you need at least 8GB to start. In practice, use as much as you can get for your hardware/budget. To prevent data corruption, we recommend the use of high quality ECC RAM. If you use a dedicated cache and/or log disk, you should use an enterprise class SSD.

What is the benefit of ZFS? ›

ZFS and OpenZFS can make point-in-time copies of the file system with great efficiency and speed because the system retains all copies of the data. Snapshots are immutable copies of the file system, while clones can be modified.

How many drives can you lose in RAIDZ2? ›

ZFS's equivalent is RAIDZ2. It is a fairly safe RAID level because it has the ability to withstand two drive failures and still rebuild, meaning if one fails you can still withstand another drive failure before or while rebuilding without losing your pool.

Why use ZFS for NAS? ›

Coupled with inline compression and inline compaction technologies, ZFS significantly reduces the overall storage footprint - especially helpful for increasing SSD storage efficiency when highly-repetitive data or massive small files are generated.

Why is RAID 0 risky? ›

Since the data is split evenly between all the drives on the array, there is absolutely no redundancy. Because of this zero-fault tolerance, if one drive fails, all the data on the array is lost. That means RAID 0 is actually less reliable than using a single disk. RAID 0 failure is a real possibility.

Why is ZFS better than RAID? ›

ZFS stands out from other RAID types by integrating a file system. It combines the functionalities of a volume manager and a RAID array, allowing for the expansion of the ZFS volume and the file system by adding extra disks.

Which is the best RAID configuration? ›

The best RAID configuration for your storage system will depend on whether you value speed, data redundancy or both. If you value speed most of all, choose RAID 0. If you value data redundancy most of all, remember that the following drive configurations are fault-tolerant: RAID 1, RAID 5, RAID 6 and RAID 10.

What is the main downside to using RAID? ›

Due to the allocation of half of the storage capacity for mirroring, RAID 10 has a high overhead, and the loss of two drives in the same mirrored pair results in data loss.

Does ZFS prevent bit rot? ›

Protect against bit rot and bad or broken disk writes

ZFS has an innovative way of enhancing data integrity and handling bit-rot, the stale and corrupted data that develops slowly over time in large datasets.

Should I still use RAID? ›

RAID is extremely useful if uptime and availability are important to you or your business. Backups will help insure you from a catastrophic data loss. But, restoring large amounts of data, like when you experience a drive failure, can take many hours to perform.

What is the advantage of ZFS? ›

The big advantage of ZFS over storing a file checksum in a bag or database is that corruption is detected and repaired. The block/checksum hierarchy makes it easier to detect whether it is the checksum itself that is corrupted.

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